Interview – Tarot

Tarot – Marco Hietala

Milton: Hey Marco, Milton Mendonca from ProgPower USA here.

Marco: Hi Milton. How are you today?

Milton: Good, early summer morning here. How are you?

Marco: I’m fine thank you. I’m sorry about the time difference, hope it’s not too early.

Milton: No worries, it’s all good. There’s nothing like talking to you after waking up.

Marco: (laughter) Hopefully.

Milton: So, it took a few years for TAROT to be confirmed to play at ProgPower USA. Any reasons for this long wait? Had you guys been offered the gig before?

Marco: Well, to be honest the band has never really been big enough to be booked in the States. From what I found out from touring the US with Nightwish the last few times though, there’s some kind of cult thing with TAROT going on. People have been really emailing a lot the organizer of ProgPower for him to book the band for the festival.

Milton: Yeah, on the ProgPower forums, there have been people requesting Tarot for years now.

Marco: Another thing I noticed was that quite a bunch of people with the Tarot albums asking for autographs at the NIGHTWISH concerts. I guess there’s a bit of a following but since we’re not that much of a mainstream band it’s not so apparent. It seems to be working nicely now.

Milton: I’ve seen you with NIGHTWISH a few times here in the States, and in every one of those shows there has been quite a few TAROT shirts, at least here in the New York area.

Marco: Yeah, it’s been happening a lot more. I’m pleased, of course.

Milton: Why do you think TAROT has become so popular in Finland but not really in the States?

Marco: Well, the States or the rest of the world for that matter. Of course we’ve been doing this for a long time here in Finland, so we’re really the pioneers of the heavy metal business here. Then things started snowballing, getting bigger and bigger for the genre. We didn’t have really good contacts, though. We had different record companies and people booking shows. Some of these people didn’t really have the means. For instance, this one label that we worked before, they really didn’t have any kind of know-how. The same thing happened with the second company we worked with, we had signed deals for three albums with them. I think it would’ve been better for us if we had done that earlier in our career. Then again, by the time we did Suffer our Pleasures for Spinefarm Records, the majority of the company had already been sold to Universal, which again didn’t really work out in Europe because the album was only sold in some catalogues, people really couldn’t find it around stores. I think basically it’s a combination of bad business and bad luck that affected TAROT.

Milton: That’s terrible. Do you regret working with any of these companies at all? Would you have done differently today?

Marco: No, not really. Of course things could have been handled better professionally. But when we did records in the 90s for Bluelight Records, which was basically a one-man company, the big thing in Finland was heavier, thrash metal stuff. We were doing a lot of demos around that time, but most record companies weren’t interested since we were labeled as more traditional heavy metal and everybody wanted the thrash and black metal bands. We had to fight a little bit for our position at the time, and the companies who released our albums, one-man-companies or not, believed in us, so I have this kind of loyalty to Mr. Mika Myyryläinen. He really took us on. The albums that we did with Bluelight also got distribution in Japan through another label, which was great, but they also dug their own hole by releasing too many albums by too many bands and went bankrupt in the end of the 90s. Spinefarm, of course was doing really well here in Finland. But the Universal connection wasn’t really good for a band our size. They weren’t really interested in doing anything for us.

Milton: For those who aren’t aware of the business aspect, what exactly does it mean for a band like TAROT for instance, when a record company goes bankrupt and a band is still under contract with them? Could you shed some light on that?

Marco: Sure. Well, for us with the Japanese label for instance, we basically lost all of the royalties for our music. They never paid us, and it makes no sense going after them legally. For us it would probably cost more than the money we’d try to get from them. When it was gone, it was gone. Another big thing is the internet, illegal downloading has really diminished record sales and the record labels took the hit. I guess that’s probably why the record labels are trying to get really young labels and give them really weird deals, where they basically take all the rights to merchandising for instance. It’s not something I’d like to see happening, but it’s happening anyways.

Milton: Wow. Does it ever get discouraging when you look at the current state of the music business?

Marco: Well, it’s tough. For instance, with Crows Fly Back, we sold around 20,000 copies, but it has been downloaded over 50,000 times. That is a serious cut on the income.

Milton: Holy shit.

Marco: I’m not pleased about the situation; I really think people should wake up and realize what they’re doing. It is stealing, basically.

Milton: A lot of bands are trying to adapt to this new reality somehow because at this point, I don’t think anyone can change it.

Marco: Well, of course the downloads could be traced and everything, you know? It can be tracked down if some people really worked on it. I don’t know how the relations between record companies work, but I know there are big companies that could basically hire people who really understand the downloading and pirating systems, and put them to work. Pay them really well to track downloads, or whatever. I don’t know, something could be done.

Milton: That’s an interesting idea, but wouldn’t at that point already be too late? I mean, you can track who downloaded your album, but by then the damage is done, no?

Marco: Yeah, but if there were people who know how to do it and do it fast enough, maybe they’d be able to make the download sites useless. I don’t think anyone who runs a download site would want to keep redoing it every day.

Milton: Makes sense. Now Marco, let’s talk a little bit about the new album you’re promoting, Gravity of Light. It’s your second album with Nuclear Blast. Are you happy with Nuclear Blast’s work so far?

Marco: Well, I’ve been quite pleased with their work. To be honest, with Suffer our Pleasures we really didn’t get any interviews from publications outside of Finland. With these two last albums on Nuclear Blast, I’ve done a hell of a lot more interviews all around the world. I’ve also seen some sales numbers and that seems to be working well outside of Finland, since at home, the album comes out through KingFoo.

Milton: That’s great. A little bit of light in the dark reality of the music business.

Marco: That’s right.

Milton: What’s the reaction been so far to Gravity of Light?

Marco: The media reaction has been mostly good. You always get people who aren’t satisfied with whatever you do, but most reviews that I’ve seen have been I’d say four stars out of five. That’s usually pretty good. The concerts have been good too, people are showing up. We’ve had a couple of sold-out gigs here in Finland and now we’re in the middle of the festival season. Last Friday we played a really good show at Midsummer Festival. We’re basically booked for the whole summer for just about every weekend, so I think things are going good.

Milton: That’s great. Gravity of Light continues in the same direction as Crows Fly Back.

Marco: I thought it was a bit of a lighter album than Crows Fly Back actually. I mean, somehow it seems that the longer that we do this, we start to enjoy it more to make music that in a certain way punishes the listeners. (laughter) For myself, the lyrics that I write seem to take on that direction even though we’re not that bleak and dark people in our personal lives. I have a really dark sense of humor, and the rest of the band is the same way. We really enjoy fucking each other up. (laughter)

Milton: (laughter)

Marco: I must say verbally. (laughter) But it’s all in good light, good spirit you know? It seems that we enjoy doing things in a heavy end, sometimes even doomy kind of way.

Milton: What’s the writing process like for TAROT?

Marco: Our writing process has pretty much been the same for quite a few years now. Usually it starts with me, my brother Zach on guitars and Janne on the keyboards. Basically it’s just ideas, riffs, melodies which we record by ourselves and send them around to each other. From those bits and pieces, we start to build up the songs and usually we get together in Janne’s studio and start putting them together. At the same time I write some lyrics and vocal melodies for the songs and that’s pretty much it.

Milton: Sounds simple enough.

Marco: Well, it’s funny that you say that because the only real difference with writing Gravity of Light was that it happened really fast and painlessly. I mean, last summer we had demos for Calling Down the Rain and Hell Knows. Then I was out with the NIGHTWISH tour, and after that we got together again and in two weeks we had the whole album written. It really had a good flow, even the lyrics came quick. That was really weird. Usually there’s always something you have to work on for quite a long time, but not with this album. It was really painless.

Milton: That’s great. If I’m not wrong, I Walk Forever was your first single, right?

Marco: Yes. Basically it’s because it’s the most radio-friendly song in the album. (laughter)

Milton: I could see Satan is Dead as a good single too, though I’m not sure how open radio stations would be with a song with Satan in it. (laughter)

Marco: (laughter) Yeah, we were thinking about that one as a single, but you’re dead on. We were advised that some radio stations might be a little turned off by the title. So the obvious choice after that was I Walk Forever.

Milton: It’s amazing how we’re in the year 2010 and stuff like that is still an issue…

Marco: I know. It’s funny because I realized that beforehand and I was ready to go with it, but the guys in the company thought maybe it wasn’t a good idea. Well, you got to trust the record label guys sometimes.

Milton: I can see you choosing Satan is Dead with an evil grin though.

Marco: (laughter) Yeah, I would’ve liked to tweak noses around the world a bit, but oh well…

Milton: I’m sure. Marco, looking at some of the lyrics on Gravity of Light, I was wondering if there’s some sort of a theme going on there.

Marco: There is kind of a theme, yes, which is apparent in some spots and not so apparent in others. It’s kind of taking the side of the underdog against corporate puppets and religious weirdos. That must come across at some parts of the record.

Milton: Do you have a personal favorite track on this album?

Marco: Uh, let’s see…  I think I like Hell Knows, but it’s one of those tracks that you probably can’t hear the theme. It’s more just like a story. I like the contrast in the song, where it’s really heavy and gloomy but you also get this fragile sense of being lost, kind of like a ghost. I like that.

Milton: That’s cool. I read some reviews on the album, and the one thing that I noticed going back to what you said about how there’s always people who aren’t entirely happy about it…

Marco: Not everyone is happy about it, but it’s interesting that for some reason, most of these critics have said that we’re not really bringing anything fresh to the heavy metal scene, so why bother doing it. I supposed it’s probably because they don’t know the history we have in doing this for a long time. Of course we try to bring new elements into our music, but we’re also proud to have this groove in the band that’s based in the 70s and not into moving everything to its proper place on ProTools. We like to keep things alive. We take this 70s groove and we try to make into this 2010 thing.

Milton: Some say that if it’s working out, why change it?

Marco: That’s right. I mean, we always try to find new elements and add new things here and there to keep it alive, you know? You have to be interested in yourself in order for it work and we managed to do that, but some people complain. I don’t really consider it my problem anymore. If they don’t like it, they can listen to Madonna.

Milton: (laughter) Well, where I was going with the question is that in this album, you had Tommy singing a bit more. A lot of the reviews that I read considered that a negative thing. I’d like to hear a bit from you regarding that decision.

Marco: The situation with Tommy is simple; he has been our friend going back about 20 years, hanging out at the same bars and all. When I was studying to be a recording engineer at the studio, he was doing some stuff with his band, a demo I think. He then started to come to our shows as a roadie, and at some point in the 90s he started doing some background vocals for us live. From there, he started doing vocals in the studio also… It’s grown over the years. We’ve been together for a long time, traveling around and all, but he never really had the status of a band member until Crows Fly Back, though he was pretty much a full-time member already on Suffer our Pleasures. We figured it’s only fair, since he’d been doing it with us for a long time.

Milton: I see. What are the songs from the new album that TAROT has been playing live? I’m curious, since I have a hard time imagining songs like Gone and Caught in the Headlights being played at a concert.

Marco: Those two are actually the only ones we haven’t played in concert, so you’re right. I don’t think we really have the time to rehearse them and bring them to the stage the way they would require. At ProgPower, we’re obviously not going to play all other eight songs. It’s early to say which songs are going to be played. But definitely not those two.

Milton: What are your personal expectations from this ProgPower gig?

Marco: Well, I just hope the show goes down well. I’ve been there before with NIGHTWISH, and honestly, I’m pleased just to get the guys to play in the US and the other countries we will afterwards. They’ve never been there, so it’ll be really cool for them. I’m also looking forward to showing them around to some bars and other places I’ve been to before. (laughter) We’ve been friends for a long time and we have a really good chemistry within the band. I’m really pleased for my friends. Also, I hope that all of the people who have been asking for TAROT to come to ProgPower will show up, so we can raise some hell together and have a blast.

Milton: Your ProgPower appearance with NIGHTWISH in 2003 was very special not only because it was your first time playing in the US as a band, but also because of the presence of a special fan, Marc Brueland. I wanted you to talk about that a little bit.

Marco: Ah…You couldn’t help but to be moved by the situation. It was really obvious that Marc was at the end of his life at the time. He came there in a wheelchair because he was already too weak to even move. We decided that if he was up to it, we’d bring him up onstage. He gathered himself and got up there on his own feet with us. And…wow. There’s not much more to say, it was a really moving and really emotional experience.

Milton: How important for you and NIGHTWISH was ProgPower?

Marco: It was a good show. It was our first show too, so it was our stepping stone so to speak. We made the mistake of coming there a little bit too late I think, so I was quite jetlagged and tired. I supposed we all were, but we still managed to pull it off. I like the festival a lot. We played more in the country afterwards, but the first time is always special, exciting. It’s when you realize “Okay, there are people here that came out to see us.” It builds up your confidence. It was much better than our second show in the US.

Milton: (laughter) I assume you’re talking about the L’Amours gig in Brooklyn, NY.

Marco: Yes, L’Amours! (laughter) I couldn’t remember the name of that place. I mean, it was fun to be there. I remember the club was really really shitty, not even matching bass drums or anything. The P.A. system was a mono system or something… (laughter) I mean, we all took that show with a real good sense of humor. It was like going back to the old days when we used to play in really shitty places. Other than that, it was a fun show. People showed up and everyone enjoyed it. It was fun. I heard the place was owned by the mafia. (laughter)

Milton: That’s right. They also would let way more people in over the capacity limit.

Marco: (laughter) That’s the thing with these really small clubs, everyone jammed in cramped together blending the heat, the sweat, the hair… It gets bad. Our second experience in New York, venue-wise was better. But whenever I think of playing New York, I think of L’Amours. (laughter) I mean, we’re talking about being backstage and for catering we got a six-pack of beer and a soggy pizza with a two-centimeter bottom and some tomato juice on top of it. (laughter) I also tried to go buy some booze, but it was Sunday and the liquor stores were all closed, and I’m like “Ahhh, where do I get my booze!!” (laughter)

Milton: (laughter) That’s a great story. Is ProgPower the only gig for TAROT in the US?

Marco: Well, nothing else has been planned. The booking agents haven’t booked anything else, so as of right now it’s an exclusive. We got shows in Mexico and South America afterwards. Then we go home for a couple of weeks, and then off again to do an European tour for a month. By then it’ll be close to Christmas, so we’ll mellow down then. We have to see for next year, since we’ll be working on a new NIGHTWISH album. I think we’ll be able to do some more TAROT shows in the spring. We’ll see.

Milton: What is the current status of NIGHTWISH, since you mentioned the new album?

Marco: We’re taking a break. We’ll start rehearsing from late July into September. We’ll start recording some demos of the new songs, and of course I’ll be leaving earlier because I have to come to Atlanta in September. But by then, hopefully the demos will be done and we’ll start recording in the winter.

Milton: Is it frustrating that TAROT, which is your baby has always remained in obscurity, while NIGHTWISH has achieved international success?

Marco: I don’t really think about it that way. Of course, for some people it may look like the TAROT years were all lost years, but I don’t see it like that. I am happy that things are happening for TAROT now, and I am also happy to be with NIGHTWISH. They’ve also become good friends of mine. Traveling with them and the crew is pretty much like a family. You care for everyone. The same thing with TAROT of course. The attitude that I like to have is that I am just happy to be with two good groups of friends that I can trust, have good times with and play the music I love.

Milton: That’s awesome. TAROT in my opinion is one of the most consistent bands in the metal scene. What is the secret to the band’s longevity? 25 years is quite a long time. I’m 26 myself. (laughter)

Marco: (laughter) I don’t know if there is really a secret to it. I mean, it’s just a bunch of guys who enjoy each other’s company and enjoy doing music together. I think the chemistry is the main reason for that. And somehow we’ve kept the ambition to make good music and do something we enjoy ourselves and present it to the people. That’s pretty much it.

Milton: And a question coming from a good friend of mine and yours, John Cheek from Texas. Grandpa.

Marco: (laughter) Oh boy.

Milton: He wanted to know what it feels like to be the old-man of Finnish heavy metal.

Marco: (laughter) Oh my God. (laughter) I don’t know. It’s another one of those things I don’t think about. Age is an attitude. (laughter) This was a really good question. Anyways, I will keep on doing this as long as I am still enjoying it.

Milton: Good. I always wondered if you’ve ever had a plan to release another project, a solo album perhaps. Something more acoustic, atmospheric…

Marco: Yes. I’ve thought about it many times, I play a lot of acoustic guitar. I kind of figured out the way to combine all of the stuff I like. Acoustic guitars, really distorted bass and some industrial rhythm to add a little heavy metal sound to it. I would like to hear what that sounds like. (laughter) I am able to listen to any kind of music if it’s done well. I’m a big fan of Kate Bush and Tori Amos, for that matter. So I’d like to do something different. Usually when I start working on something like that, it turns out to be a heavy metal song, so…. (laughter)

Milton: Any favorite bands that you enjoy in the metal scene?

Marco: Hm, not that much to be honest. Like I said, I like almost everything. I like this Swedish stoner rock group called MUSTASCH. I’m not sure if you know them.

Milton: Oh yeah, they were at ProgPower a few years ago.

Marco: Oh yeah? Well, they’re a band that I have recently found out and have been listening to. Their groove and attitude is pretty cool, but they also have pretty obvious roots to BLACK SABBATH. No wonder I like them.

Milton: I also know you recently took part on this TV show, kind of like a “Battle of the Choirs”  thing. Kuorosota I think was the name?

Marco: Yes, Kuorosota.

Milton: It looked much cooler than our American Idol.

Marco: Yeah, basically they take six celebrities, so to speak, from different genres of music. These people need to collect a choir, do rehearsals with them, and every Sunday there’s a live show where you take your choir and performs one or two songs. You also get a chance to sing once or twice yourself and blah blah blah. You just battle it out with the public vote to choose the best. It goes on once a week; the lowest voted group gets eliminated. It was fun, but it was a lot of work and traveling, lots of rehearsing, lots of work on the arrangements and stuff. I managed to get myself a good combination of people, the youngest was 18 and the oldest was 64. It was a bunch of crazy people, but lots of fun.

Milton: And you chose to sing a TAROT song on the show.

Marco: Yeah, of course! And that’s when I got some really nice press too! We had the album out for about two weeks, so I gave everyone TAROT shirts and said “Let’s do one of my band’s songs!” The press thought this was real blatant promotion. They called me arrogant and stuff, and I was like “Okay, write some more! Write some more! Keep it coming!” (laughter)

Milton: That’s great, the more they write, the more people will be interested.

Marco: Exactly, people would want to check out what the band really is.

Milton: How far did you go in the competition?

Marco: We got second place. But I heard it was a real close call. The other group was really good as well, they deserved to be there. I didn’t mind losing for them. It was a great experience at the end.

Milton: I just hope you didn’t lose because of the TAROT song.

Marco: (laughter) No, I don’t think so.

Milton: Marco, my last question. Why should the ProgPower attendees check out TAROT’s performance?

Marco: Hmmm.

Milton: This is your self-promotion moment by the way, just like with Kuorosota.

Marco: (laughter) Yeah, I kind of recognized that. Well, I think in certain ways, the world of heavy metal has become inbred. It has rules that I taught my people, and my people taught those rules to the following generations, but made it like in order for you to be convincing in heavy metal, you have to do this or that, wear this or that, blah blah blah. I definitely think that is not what we have here with TAROT. We play pretty straightforward heavy metal with quite a lot of other music underneath. Also, we’re never serious ourselves. I think if you check out the group live, you will be surprised.